Aerobic exercise for the power athlete?

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Aerobic exercise for the power athlete?

Postby Maxim » Aug 09, 2005 16:28

Hi everybody :) ,

I want to get really good at weightlifting, which is a sport where explosive power is a major factor. I heard you need as much as possible type II muscle fibers for maximum power. I also heard aerobic exercise will cause type II fibres to act more like type I, thus lowers explosive ability.

I currently weigh 72 kg at 178 cm, which mean I have approximately 20 kg of muscle mass to gain in order to achieve the desired athletic weight. I know this is an enormous amount, but am realistic about it. I heard the hard training, natural athlete can gain as much as 4 kg of muscle mass a year, so it will take me 5 years or so...


Wondering why I am interested in aerobic exercise then?
I'd like to keep my body fat level low because I am a vain person, but I will use the excuse of weight classes :lol:

My questions are:
*Is aerobic exercise detrimental to strength and power development?

*Is aerobic exercise really a key to low body fat, or are the claims about the increased efficiency of fat metabolism it causes exagerated?
Maxim
 
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Postby dragon » Aug 10, 2005 05:20

As i've said before i'm not too clued up on power lifting but i'll try and help.
Here's an article on fibre types:-

http://www.isokinetics.net/advanced/mus ... rtypes.htm

Even if the retaining your strength aspect of the equation was omitted it would still be impossible to gain 20kg's of mass without some of it being fat.The usual ratio is for every 2 pounds of muscle you gain,expect to gain 1 pound of fat.
With this in mind you could use the body building method of bulking up then cutting back(the theory being,when you cut back the excess fat you will be left with the majority of the muscle gains).
I have no idea how this will affect you as a power lifter though.Most body builders experience a drop in training poundages when dieting(this could be due to very extreme diet practices though).

Another consideration is high volume training.This is the basis of Pavel Tsatsouline's new book Beyond Bodybuilding.I am about to start a cycle of this type of training myself as a break from the usual bodybuilding type workout.
This is an article written by Mike Mahler on high volume strength training:-

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do;js ... ?id=543803

This type of training is closer to the way a power lifter trains(in terms of intensity and rep scheme) but you perform more sets.
This has the benefit of increased muscle mass(which you need to for quality weight gain) and will also use up more calories,possibly eliminating the need for excessive(for your chosen sport anyway) cardio work.

If none of this is helpful i guess you could just compete at a lower weight catagory!

Dragon.
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Postby Maxim » Aug 10, 2005 06:14

Thanks for the effort, Dragon :)
Unfortunately weightlifters can not experience these dramatic increases in "muscle" mass bodybuilders achieve through their high rep training and bulking diets, we have to take it slower, if a weightgain is to be truly effective (a gain of a pound for example will have to be maintained for at least a couple of weeks to fully exploit the strength potential of the weight gain)
So maybe it can be done with little fat gain.

I wonder what Tom Kurz has to say...
(I prefer this forum to specialized forums, since they tend to be biased with myths and traditions, Kurz however approaches everything like a scientist :wink: )
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Postby mmeloon » Aug 10, 2005 12:20

One thing to keep in mind is that regular aerobic exercise can improve your ability to recover between workouts and this is important for anyone training with weights. So it's not as simple as "aerobics: good or bad?" for weightlifters. Some is beneficial while too much is detrimental. The trick is in determining how much is too much.

About aerobic exercise and bodyfat, my feeling is that it is pretty important. You will need to eat an awful lot to make sure you are getting the most out of your intense weights workouts. Trying to measure precisely the amount of food you need to build muscle and not gain fat is probably impossible so you overshoot with the food a little and use aerobics to get rid of the fat that is accumulated. Note, I said overshoot a little. Don't go crazy on the food. Get yourself some skin calipers and measure your bodyfat regularly when you are gaining mass to make sure it's the right kind of mass.

-Mark
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Postby Maxim » Aug 13, 2005 09:37

I'm even more confused now :(

Aerobic exercise is the key to low bodyfat, but power athletes can't do them, yet many have very low body fat percentages. Do sprinters etc just manipulate their bodyfat with their genes,diet and drugs or do they also perform aerobic exercise?

:?
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Postby dragon » Aug 13, 2005 09:55

Aerobic exercise alone does not cause low bodyfat.

Long distance marathon runners don't usually look as ripped as sprinters do for example.
Diet is a huge part of dropping body fat,but as an athlete your diet should be quite clean anyway.
There is a difference though between dropping bodyfat and dropping bodyfat whilst also gaining muscle.
One is catabolic,the other is anabolic.Your body can't be in both states at the same time.
If you stepped up the intensity of your power lifting training whilst keeping the calories the same you would/could shed excess bodyfat(Like the powerlifters with low BF%).If you wanted to gain additional size,expect an increase in fat also.

Dragon.
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Postby Maxim » Aug 13, 2005 10:05

Yes my diet is quite 'strict', I weigh my food etc :lol: to make sure how much of what I am eating, I am also at 8% bodyfat now.

So if I take it slow, I should be able to add muscle mass without much fat gain? Because I don't want to go the 'bulk' and 'cut' route, which causes great fat gains.

When I say slow I mean so slow you actually prevent the body from gaining lean body weight too fast, since that would not allow for the greatest advantage in terms of strength and power.

Thanks for your replies, BTW :wink:
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Postby dragon » Aug 13, 2005 10:18

Only thing i can suggest(because of limited knowledge of your sport) is to keep all variables the same(training,outside activities,etc) the same and just slightly increase your calorie intake(about 200 cals per week).
If you find you are gaining any bodyfat(8% is quite low anyway) you could try increasing your workout volume.I don't mean aerobics or high rep weight training routines,but your usual powerlifting routine with an extra set or two.
This shouldn't compromise your power training.

Dragon.
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Postby Maxim » Aug 13, 2005 10:40

Thanks a lot Dragon, I will try to be as helpful as you if you ever have questions :wink:

I have ordered a book called "Power Eating" by Susan M. Kleiner (http://www.powereating.com), I'll give it a go 8)
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Postby dragon » Aug 15, 2005 04:56

At the weekend i read about a book called The Anabolic Diet by Mauro Di Pasquale,M.D.

Not sure if this book has any info on a powerlifter's diet plan,but the author is a former powerlifting champion as well as a doctor.

Dragon.
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Postby Maxim » Aug 16, 2005 07:30

I heard about that book, but the thought of "low carb" turns me off :( , as well as the fact he pushes all kinds of supplements...

It' confusing, all these different theories, maybe I should become a nutritionist myself :lol:

Thanks anyway :wink:
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Re: Aerobic exercise for the power athlete?

Postby Thomas Kurz » Aug 16, 2005 10:23

Maxim wrote:It' confusing, all these different theories


Instead of being confused why not follow the simple formula given in two paragraphs at the bottom of page 111 in the chapter Nutrition of Science of Sports Training?

Maxim wrote:My questions are:
*Is aerobic exercise detrimental to strength and power development?

*Is aerobic exercise really a key to low body fat, or are the claims about the increased efficiency of fat metabolism it causes exagerated?


These issues are discussed in Stadion News article titled "The Role of Aerobic Fitness in High Intensity Efforts," especially in part II and IV.
Thomas Kurz
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Postby Maxim » Aug 16, 2005 15:32

Because I do not own the book :lol:

I'm considering of getting it, is there any chance there are distributors of your books in Europe? Otherwise I will have to send cash
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Aerobic exercise for the power athlete?

Postby Thomas Kurz » Aug 17, 2005 16:37

Try http://www.stadion.com/stores.html . Also, some bookstores do special orders and can order the book from us for you.
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Re: Aerobic exercise for the power athlete?

Postby REG » Mar 18, 2012 22:18

dragon wrote:Even if the retaining your strength aspect of the equation was omitted it would still be impossible to gain 20kg's of mass without some of it being fat.The usual ratio is for every 2 pounds of muscle you gain,expect to gain 1 pound of fat.
With this in mind you could use the body building method of bulking up then cutting back(the theory being,when you cut back the excess fat you will be left with the majority of the muscle gains).
I have no idea how this will affect you as a power lifter though.Most body builders experience a drop in training poundages when dieting(this could be due to very extreme diet practices though).


If you gained 2 pounds of muscle, then why would you expect to gain a pound of fat? I know that Kurz explained the reason on the Q&A section of the Spring 2006 Newsletter. However, if you gained muscle (assuming your diet is optimally healthy) aren't you actually supposed to lose fat because the more muscle mass you gain or have the higher your BMR (basal metabolic rate) is, and the higher the BMR is the higher the body's daily caloric expenditure? Also, Doesn't hypertrophy training produce alot of EPOC? I am really confused and would really appreciate any clarity in this. Thanks!
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