Recovery and stance training

Post questions and tips on how flexibility training fits with training for other abilities.

Recovery and stance training

Postby JimH » Dec 08, 2010 01:09

Hi, I am reviewing the "Stretching Clinic" DVD, which has lots of good info in it. I am figuring out how to conduct my workouts, changing exercises around, to better accommodate the stretching and exercise progression that is illustrated on the DVD. Among two very basic things that I obviously have to relearn how to do is the horse stance and fighting stance. The way Tom showed them, (I tried them out while watching) it was clear that they are solid, his fighting stance keeps you light on your feet, both are well worth learning to do it his way.

But, I am letting myself recover from some overuse, first, before I dive in.

So, first question: My quadratus lumborum, gluteus minimus, and quads have some cramping. They are not badly sprained or strained, but they can get twitchy during workouts, and stiff afterwards. They are responding very well to myofacial release techniques, but I am guessing it might be another week before I can do any sort of training that is dynamic or strength-building (hopefully sooner, but who knows.) I know from prior experience, that by the time I am ready to get started on legwork again, it will be as if I've been on vacation. Are there any exercises that you could recommend that could maintain the minimum amount of activity so that I won't have that "starting from scratch feeling"? Any flexibility exercises? Or should I really just do no exercise or stretching at all?

Second question, related to what I saw on the DVD: In order to avoid overtaxing the muscles again, I would like to know what the recommendation is to build up the strength to properly work out with Tom's forward fighting stance and, what is his recommended method for using the horse stance as a leg strength builder (NOT as an isometric exercise)? He seemed to think highly of learning to hold the horse stance as a training method on the DVD.... or does he think that dynamic exercises like Hindu squats are better for martial arts leg strength?

In general, when I restart my workouts, I plan on adding warm up, pushups, Hindu squats, crunches (a few different flavors), leg lifts to front and side, chin-ups (I have a chin-up bar at home), and I would like to do bob-and-weave exercises, as well as some shadowboxing, and the stance training mentioned above. Also, at the beginning of a workout, specific technique exercises for kicking and hands, which might include a few different little exercises that might change from workout to workout or from week to week. Not in that order, not necessarily all in the same day. I will be arranging the different exercises to better match Tom's sample workout pattern.

A note: I do not have weights available to me, and my exercises must "travel on the road" in whatever hotel I end up in for business. So, anything that does not require much more than a stopwatch and a list of exercises is best.
JimH
 
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Joined: Dec 01, 2010 00:59

Re: Recovery and stance training

Postby JimH » Dec 11, 2010 12:26

*bump*

Is there no one on this forum?

In regard to my first question, above, After attempting some dynamic flexing leg raises to the side, I decided to just wait it out. I could feel twinges in my hips, and I don't want to give myself a real injury.

But, in regards to the other question... no one has any ideas? Or will I be told to buy another product?
JimH
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Dec 01, 2010 00:59

Re: Recovery and stance training

Postby cailifo » Dec 11, 2010 13:45

I read your questions when you posted them, but I don't have that DVD and so probably couldn't give a good enough answer.

As for your first question, I think it is okay to do some very light dynamic leg swings. Only what is comfortable and will make your legs feel a little looser. You just want to maintain some mobility, not necessarily increase your flexibility. You are sore after all. I always think it is best to do something for mobility so you won't be too stiff when you come back. Just be aware of your body and don't worry about going too high. Again it's just to maintain some mobility during your period of rest.

As for your second question, again I don't have that DVD so I'm not sure about the way the fighting stance and horse stance was taught there. I, however, practice both types of horse stance training- static and dynamic. I've seen Kurz do the same, and both are important if you want static and dynamic strength and flexibility.
cailifo
 
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Re: Recovery and stance training

Postby JimH » Dec 11, 2010 13:54

cailifo wrote:I read your questions when you posted them, but I don't have that DVD and so probably couldn't give a good enough answer.

As for your first question, I think it is okay to do some very light dynamic leg swings. Only what is comfortable and will make your legs feel a little looser. You just want to maintain some mobility, not necessarily increase your flexibility. You are sore after all. I always think it is best to do something for mobility so you won't be too stiff when you come back. Just be aware of your body and don't worry about going too high. Again it's just to maintain some mobility during your period of rest.

As for your second question, again I don't have that DVD so I'm not sure about the way the fighting stance and horse stance was taught there. I, however, practice both types of horse stance training- static and dynamic. I've seen Kurz do the same, and both are important if you want static and dynamic strength and flexibility.


Thanks for answering califo.

Regarding the horse stance... treat me as you would a beginner, and assuming that I want to start with a rotating routine of leg and arm exercises: what mix of Hindu squats, front/side chamber-and-kicking, and 5-step horse stance would you recommend to start off with. I am trying to find that balance where, as aggressively as possible, I can get strong, but not injure myself. (It seems that I have been over-aggressive lately.) What to start with, and then, what pace of improvement might I try, first?

Many thanks
JimH
 
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Joined: Dec 01, 2010 00:59

Re: Recovery and stance training

Postby cailifo » Dec 12, 2010 20:22

When I first started a training routine for strength and flexibility, also treating myself as a beginner, I used the routine on page 24 of Stretching Scientifically that was approved by Thomas Kurz as an example of a well structured routine.

It was a light weight high rep routine to build strength. It went like this:

1. Joint Rotations
2. Warm-up (jogging or whatever)
3. Leg Raises (I did 3 sets of 12 because 30-40 reps is recommended for developing dynamic flexibility.)
4. Squats (3 sets of 30- recommended as the absolute least for developing dynamic strength. I did nose and toes to the wall, sitting all the way down on the heels, moving slowly with full stops at the top and bottom- the beginner squat with no weight.)
5. Isometric Side Split (Started with 3 sets and progressed to 5 sets. Starting from low horse stance, tensing for 3-5 seconds and increasing the stretch a few times until max range of motion is reached, then holding the last tension for 30 seconds.)
6. Isometric Front Split (Same as above for side split.)
7. Adductor Flies (1 set of 100 weightless.)
8. Good Mornings (3 sets of 30 like the squats, or 1 set of 100 without weights.)
9. Relaxed Side Split (Leaning forward on forearms and holding for 1-2 minutes.)
10. Relaxed Front Split (Same as above for side split.)

11. Big dinner with Protein Shake!

To increase strength and stretch higher weights can be added progressively. Thomas Kurz uses Hindu Squats and Pushups in high reps as a cool down. It feels quite good like the weightless adductor flies.
cailifo
 
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Re: Recovery and stance training

Postby JimH » Dec 12, 2010 21:17

No situps/crunches? I see good mornings... but no abs. Did you add those at another time, later?

Adductor flies WITH the isometrics? All the advice I have gleaned so far has been that the adductor flies build strength for the split isometrics, and to do them as preparation for the isometrics. Would I risk re-injury if I started with that, or is it better to slowly build them both up simultaneously?

Regarding the squats, form-wise, I know the difference between the squats you mention, and hindu squats. But, functionally, what is the difference in the kind of strength that they build? (assuming both kinds are done weightless) I am not quite clear on that. It looks like Hindu squats might be better for the calves and for balance and breathing.

As always, thanks for sharing your experience.
JimH
 
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Joined: Dec 01, 2010 00:59

Re: Recovery and stance training

Postby cailifo » Dec 13, 2010 13:37

This is a lower body routine. While Good Mornings get the lower back, and Adductor Flies get the abs, I did them weightless as a relaxer for the hamstrings and adductors after they had been worked. Adding more weight or more specific exercises like back extensions and crunches can be done in a separate workout. For me, usually the upper body workout on another day.

As for the adductor flies, I did them weightless at first of course. Done like this after all the hard squats and isometrics they are a nice relaxer. At that time though, I had already tested my reaction to isometrics and experienced no pain or soreness afterward. You may be different and just want to work the adductor flies before isometrics. But even when you start isometrics the adductor flies can still be used, and graduated into adductor pull downs to increase strength for isometric side splits.

Regarding the squats, the nose and toes to the wall squats are done slowly and can be done with weights to develop strength through a full range of motion. The Hindu squats are generally done weightless and at a higher pace, which is to develop muscular endurance. I used them as a relaxer, much like the weightless adductor flies.
cailifo
 
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