Questions regarding safety and other questions

Post questions and tips on how flexibility training fits with training for other abilities.

Questions regarding safety and other questions

Postby Maxim » Jun 01, 2005 06:40

Hi everybody :P
I have a question regarding the safety of the program after reading a rather negative review http://home.att.net/~erik.mann/kurzsss.htm , the writer seems sincere enough to be taken seriously though. Does your method put excess stress on the knees?

I have the DVD(I know you are thinking: yeah right, but it's true. I specifically liked Kurz saying: "You either want results or you want you habits." :lol: )
I do not have the book because I'm too lazy to read it.
You say that abductor strength is the key to flexibility, does that mean that a powerlifter will learn the sidesplit very quickly? I am a weightlifter and have heard that we don't have that good abductors, but rather quadricep strength, will this help in achieving a front split?
Do you need abductor flies or can you do deadlifts etc instead?

For a martial artists, do splits have any use? Is dynamic stretching adequate?

Sincerely, Maxime
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Re: Questions regarding safety and other questions

Postby Thomas Kurz » Jun 01, 2005 07:43

Maxim wrote:Hi everybody :P
Does your method put excess stress on the knees?


Only if one is stupid enough not to follow my advice in the chapter Prepare for Stretching (see the DVD's table of contents) prior to doing advanced isometric stretches.

Maxim wrote:You say that abductor strength is the key to flexibility, does that mean that a powerlifter will learn the sidesplit very quickly? I am a weightlifter and have heard that we don't have that good abductors, but rather quadricep strength, will this help in achieving a front split?


I do not say any such nonsense. It is adductors, not abductors. Different muscles, different function. And to think that there is so much talk about it on the DVD, the name of exercises themselves is written on the screen....

Maxim wrote:Do you need abductor flies or can you do deadlifts etc instead?


Different muscles, different function.

Maxim wrote:For a martial artists, do splits have any use? Is dynamic stretching adequate?


I explained that in the book.
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Re: Questions regarding safety and other questions

Postby Maxim » Jun 01, 2005 08:43

Thomas Kurz wrote:I do not say any such nonsense. It is adductors, not abductors. Different muscles, different function. And to think that there is so much talk about it on the DVD, the name of exercises themselves is written on the screen....



Well obviously I meant adductor, you need not embarras your costumers :( . I do not think I will do business with you again, such arrogance :shock:
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Re: Questions regarding safety and other questions

Postby dragon » Jun 01, 2005 08:56

Maybe Mr.Kurz felt your original post was quite confrontational.When i initially read it i too felt you had already made up your mind on the subject.If i am wrong i apologize.

Maxim wrote:I have a question regarding the safety of the program after reading a rather negative review http://home.att.net/~erik.mann/kurzsss.htm , the writer seems sincere enough to be taken seriously though.


The writer does seem sincere but sadly he doesn't sound very well informed.For example,he has the Kurz material but he still did isometrics first and then the strengthening program to "counter" any problems he had.
This isn't misunderstood information from the book/dvd,this is just an attempt to rush results.

Dragon.
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Re: Questions regarding safety and other questions

Postby Thomas Kurz » Jun 01, 2005 10:53

Maxim wrote:
Thomas Kurz wrote:I do not say any such nonsense. It is adductors, not abductors. Different muscles, different function. And to think that there is so much talk about it on the DVD, the name of exercises themselves is written on the screen....



Well obviously I meant adductor, you need not embarras your costumers :( . I do not think I will do business with you again, such arrogance :shock:


I had no intention to embarrass you. Nor did I find your post confrontational. I just do not want anyone to think that I'm sloppy. Sloppy writing means sloppy thinking and that leads to ignorance and incompetence.
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Re: Questions regarding safety and other questions

Postby mat » Jun 01, 2005 11:18

Maxim wrote:Well obviously I meant adductor, you need not embarras your costumers :( . I do not think I will do business with you again, such arrogance :shock:


I followed this thread, it is not obvious that you meant adductor - adductors and abductors are two completely different muscle groups. One is not a misspelling of the other.

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Re: Questions regarding safety and other questions

Postby mmeloon » Jun 01, 2005 12:16

Maxim wrote:Well obviously I meant adductor, you need not embarras your costumers :( . I do not think I will do business with you again, such arrogance :shock:


Maxim, allow me to give you a little bit of advice. Don't concentrate so much on any perceived slight. Concentrate on the information being given to you. There's an awful lot of good information on this board (for free) and in Stadion's products (all reasonably priced). You would be a fool to turn away from this goldmine of training data just because you didn't appreciate when Mr. Kurz corrected your error.

-Mark
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Postby Maxim » Jun 01, 2005 14:40

:?
Does anyone else have an opinion about how olympic weightlifting and powerlifting can help in strengthening the aDDuctor muscles of the legs for isometric stretches?

(I ask because I do not have access to iron boots or a pulley, atomic athletic seems to distibute iron boots, but not to Europe. I practice a lot of freestyle weightlifting and wonder wether it has any caryover to the isometric stretches.)
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Postby mmeloon » Jun 01, 2005 15:43

From http://www.exrx.net/Lists/ExList/ThighWt.html:
See Quadriceps (compound movements only) and Gluteus Maximus for basic exercises for Adductor Magnus, Posterior Fibers. Compound Quadriceps exercises can be performed with a wide stance to exercise the Adductors of the Femur.


I would think that deadlifts really wouldn't be effective for adductors since they are not prime movers and probably aren't really that necessary for stability, either. The quote above would suggest that perhaps Sumo deadlifts would be better than the traditional one. Squats might be slightly better since the weight being up on your shoulders requires the adductors to work a little harder to maintain balance. I really don't know much about the olympic lifts so I can't comment even remotely intelligently about them. You might have to google for more info.

-Mark
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Postby Thomas Kurz » Jun 01, 2005 16:12

Maxim wrote::?
Does anyone else have an opinion about how olympic weightlifting and powerlifting can help in strengthening the aDDuctor muscles of the legs for isometric stretches?


To target adductors try exercises preparing for clean and jerk. See exercises in the DVD's chapter “Strengthen Your Legs for Flexibility.”

Deadlifts and good morning lifts, while good for overall strength, do very little for adductors as these lifts stress mostly hip extensors, lower back, and hip abductors.
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Postby Maxim » Jun 02, 2005 07:00

Thank you.
I think our misunderstanding was caused by a language barrier and I appologize :oops:

If anyone has links to sites other than atomic athletic that sell iron boots(atomic athletic does not ship to Europe I think), please post them. Like said on the video, you need to progress to a pulley, can I start right away with a pulley instead of iron boots?
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Postby mmeloon » Jun 02, 2005 10:26

Maxim wrote:Thank you.
I think our misunderstanding was caused by a language barrier and I appologize :oops:


Maxim, that is a big thing to do. All too often I see people refuse to back down on these types of BBs because of ego or pride. While the web is a great means for people to exchange information, the lack of facial cues and verbal intonation makes these sorts of misunderstandings somewhat common. The best we can do is be prepared to back down and apologize if things get out of hand and you have done exactly that. Bravo.

Welcome to the board and I hope you will find this to be a useful source of information. Make sure to check out some of the other threads (such as this one and this one) and see what else has been discussed.

-Mark
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Postby Maxim » Jun 02, 2005 11:31

thanks for your understanding and for the links :D
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