GTG stretching - for Mr Kurz and everybody

Post questions and tips on how flexibility training fits with training for other abilities.

GTG stretching - for Mr Kurz and everybody

Postby smet » Apr 26, 2006 01:14

As stretching is the function of strength of muscles involved, I was wandering if the following technique would work.

Pavel Tsatsouline, a Russian sports instructor, advocates Grease the Groove (GTG) technique for strength development. For uninitiated, it means doing your chosen exercise (say, pull up) throughout the day, without getting fatigued. For instance, doing three pushups every hour. The result is the volume of muscle load one can push through, which is not possible with conventional workouts. At some stage I was doing 5 pull ups every 30 minutes, it translates into 40 - 60 pull ups during the day. :shock: It sure works well for strength endurance.

My question is, would it work with stretching as well? Following this methodology, one would get to the lowest position of transverse split and do several isometric contractions every hour or so. Do you think this would accelerate the results?
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Re: GTG stretching - for Mr Kurz and everybody

Postby mat » Apr 26, 2006 04:08

I would have thought that isometric contractions were too intense to be done that frequently. Perhaps holding a horse posture for 20 seconds every half hour?

I'd be very interested to know if doing dynamic stretches or relaxed stretches every hour would improve dynamic or static flexibility respectively.

Cheers,
Mat
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Postby DanBor » Apr 26, 2006 05:10

I would be very interested aswell.
The only problem is I'm at the office from 8 to 17. But it could be worth trying.
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Postby dragon » Apr 26, 2006 05:33

I've used the GTG program successfully myself for both chin ups and push ups.

I doubt it would work for stretching the way you would want it to though:-

1)As you say,with GTG you never perform anywhere near to failure.With the NASA push up program for example it's something like 30% of your max reps every hour one day,50% the next(or something like that,haven't got it in front of me).
If that was applied to stretching,you would never perform your maximum stretch each time.So what would be the point?
The only thing it may do is allow you to perform the stretch you've been doing throughout the day more easily(quicker) without a warm up.

2)The same goes for isometrics.You wouldn't be stretching to your max or tensing to your max.Although with isometrics performed this way i guess it could condition you.

3)Dynamic stretching:-The point of the early morning stretching is to prepare you for the rest of the day.So there it would be a waste of time doing it more often.(early morning dynamic stretching is something Tsatsouline himself advoactes)

4)Seeing as you are using Tsatsouline's methods,he himself doesn't advise stretching more than 3-4 times per week.


I think trying to increase your max push ups,chin ups,etc is different from trying to increase your flexibility.The GTG may work for one but not the other.


Dragon.
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Postby DanBor » Apr 26, 2006 12:17

So could this be done with horse stance - what do you think? I have read about GTG today in Naked warrior. Pavel mentions in the book performing half of the reps one can usually do, or to start with 5 reps or even less - depends how you body reacts. Point is to be stronger after each performance , not fatigued.
Could this work with horse stance, like 20-30 sec everyhour or so? What do you think?
Thanks.
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Postby dragon » Apr 27, 2006 05:22

If you're using it for strength gains/increasing the time you can hold the position,then i'd say yes,it can be used.

Haven't got Naked Warrior with me to see what Tsatsouline recommends but i know in one of his other books,Beyond Bodybuilding,he gives details for the NASA program.
With this you test your max every 7 days or so and the loads(amount of reps,time in between each set,etc) changes from day to day.
This method may be more beneficial for the stance training.

Dragon.
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Postby DanBor » Apr 27, 2006 06:26

I haven't read Beyond bodybuilding yet. In Naked warrior he recommend changes from day to day too but he also recommends to test one's personal record (PR) only few times a year.
So I will try GTG with stances.
Thanks Dragon.
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Postby dragon » Apr 27, 2006 06:37

I'd say if you want to improve your overall stance time it should be tested to the max more than Tsatsouline recommends for bodyweight drills such as chin ups and push ups.

I'll have to give this a go myself.I'm a sucker for self experimentation.

Dragon.
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Postby DanBor » Apr 27, 2006 08:04

I can never stick long with one rutine. Not that I'm lazy or anything, but I'm allways on the look out for new (or different) stuff.
Thanks. And I also thank to Smet for opening this interesting topic that got me interested in this GTG strenght training.
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Postby smet » Apr 27, 2006 17:01

dragon wrote:you would never perform your maximum stretch each time.So what would be the point?

The same goes for isometrics.You wouldn't be stretching to your max or tensing to your max.

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GTG for stretching

Postby smet » Apr 27, 2006 17:06

Sorry for the previous message, I got lost in the logistics of the forum and sent it too soon.

Dragon, I disagree with you on the above quotes. You can perform your maximum STRETCH with GTG, you just wouldn't go for the maximal TENSION, different things.

I don't insist it should work, just wondereng. I don't think there is any research done on this. I should probably find the time and try it myself.
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Postby dragon » Apr 28, 2006 08:01

If applied to GTG,you would perform a stretch every hour(for example).

You may perform your maximum stretch for that point in time but it would not be the same maximum stretch that were to be performed after a warm up.

Unless you already had great conditioning and great flexibility.In which case there is no need to use training methods such as GTG to improve it.


Dragon.
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Postby Tim... » Sep 07, 2006 04:01

Hi.

One of the things we say in Yoga is, it's not how often you stretch, but how often you don't that limits your improvement. To put it another way, little and often gives better results than fewer more intensive stretching routines. The advantage with this approach is stretching is not daunting, so you don't get hung up on how difficult a session is going to be and talk yourself out of it.

Try holding a forward fold for 30 breaths (approximately 1 minute) on the hour, every waking hour. Your forward fold will improve very quickly.

Note. I'm not saying this is a replacement for PNF. It's something to consider as well as, provided your not burning yourself out. If you don't like it, don't do it :)

Cheers

Tim...
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Pavel Tsatsouline

Postby tyciol » Dec 06, 2007 00:22

From the recent newsletter:
About the way Pavel Tsatsouline's stretching and flexibility
training: I will begin paying attention to what he teaches when he
shows at least the flexibility and strength that my customers show.
So far, you show more strength at the greater stretch [[url=http://www.stadion.com/gif/oliver_klettner.jpg]see
the photo[/url]] than he does--so why do you care?

Best regards,
_________________
Thomas Kurz


Ouch :)
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